[Ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group] WWIII Developer Meeting Minutes -- Wed Nov 16 (IMPORTANT info inside)
g.p.vanvledder
g.p.vanvledder at tudelft.nl
Thu Nov 17 19:44:46 UTC 2016
Arun
My bottom line is that all contributors should be visible. Henrique statement is more the formal part of less interest for me. Then we have choice of order. Alphabetical or put Hendrik first. First option stresses the community effort which I prefer. Although there is concensus that Hendrik started all of this in Delft.
Gerbrant
Verzonden vanaf Samsung Mobile.
<div>-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------</div><div>Van: Arun Chawla - NOAA Federal <arun.chawla at noaa.gov> </div><div>Datum:17-11-2016 5:17 PM (GMT+02:00) </div><div>Aan: Henrique Alves - NOAA Affiliate <henrique.alves at noaa.gov> </div><div>Cc: ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov </div><div>Onderwerp: Re: [Ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group] WWIII Developer Meeting Minutes -- Wed Nov 16 (IMPORTANT info inside) </div><div>
</div>I hope to hear everybody's opinion on this and then if we do not have consensus we will set up a poll to decide. I am hoping that all participate after the discussion.
I hope nobody holds back. We would like to hear all opinions. And do not worry about ruffling feathers. We want this group to grow and hold for a long time so all your opinions are important.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Arun Chawla
Chief
Marine Modelling & Analysis Branch
Room 2109
National Center for Weather & Climate Prediction
5830 University Research Court
College Park, MD 20740
Ph: 301-683-3740
Fx: 301-683-3703
------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Henrique Alves - NOAA Affiliate <henrique.alves at noaa.gov> wrote:
Arun and All,
Despite being a community model, the WW3 code package is by copyright property of the US National Weather Service/NOAA (eg, see licensing terms, and headers in all parts of the code itself). Therefore, it would make more sense if the authorship of the manual is attributed to the US National Weather Service/NOAA. This would fall into the APA citation style knows as "corporate authorship" (http://libguides.tru.ca/c.php?g=194005&p=1418555). There are a few different ways to go about that. One is to simply state in the manual that reference should be made in the form:
US National Weather Service, NOAA, 2016: User manual and system documentation of WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. Tech. Note 329, NOAA/NWS/NCEP/MMAB, College Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
And a list of collaborators, as well as the project lead, would be provided within the manual. This would be in line with the idea of using "The WAVEWATCH III® Development Group (WW3DG)", except that the latter does not formally exist, and would have to be formalized somehow within NOAA. If this is the case, the citation would be:
The WAVEWATCH III® Development Group (WW3DG), 2016: User manual and system documentation of WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. NCEP/MMAB Tech. Note 329, US National Weather Service, NOAA, College Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
A form adopted by several organizations for this type of report/manual, including ECMWF, UNESCO etc, would be consistent with the above, but in the line with what Alex suggested, whereby the group lead (eg, the person who would be held accountable/responsible for the development effort) appears as the corresponding author, and a list of collaborators is provided within the report (as done now), thus:
Chawla, A., US National Weather Service, NOAA, 2016: User manual and system documentation of WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. NCEP/MMAB Tech. Note 329, College Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
The corresponding author would change reflecting the person at NOAA who could be held responsible/accountable for the development work referring to that report.
Finally, another option for authorship that we discussed in a WW3 meeting a couple of years ago, was to establish a steering committee representative of the main groups involved in the development effort. This steering committee would somehow be formalized within NOAA, composed of a smaller number of leads. Authorship in this case would be attributed to the steering committee (such as what was done in a couple of NOPP papers recently), and additional collaborators would be acknowledge inside the report (as seen now). This would lead to:
Chawla, A., Aname, A., Bname, B., Cname, C., 2016: User manual and system documentation of WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. NCEP/MMAB Tech. Note 329, US National Weather Service, NOAA, College Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
with as many co-authors as steering group members. Changes in steering group members, as also the case for the WW3 project lead, would be documented at NOAA and reflected in the authorship of subsequent manuals/reports.
Cheers
Henrique
--
*Dr Jose-Henrique Alves
SRG Technical Lead at EMC/NCEP/NOAA
NOAA Center for Weather and Climate Prediction
5830 University Research Court
College Park, Maryland 20740, USA
Phone: (301) 683-3762*
On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 9:12 AM, Arun Chawla - NOAA Federal <arun.chawla at noaa.gov> wrote:
Thanks Jianguo
You bring up important points. Jessica was speaking for me so let me elaborate my preference for the Group name further
a) The first name, and hence ownership issue becomes central. This to me is an anathema to community model development. If there has to be a first author right now Hendrik is the obvious choice. But what happens in a few years ? There will come a time (and I am hoping for it) when code development is diversified enough that no single group / person could take the mantle of major developer. In fact that is already the case with v 5.16
b) While the list of authors at near 40 is still manageable, the contributor list is only expected to grow and I hope exponentially. At what time do we say this is too many names to put on a citation ?
c) Alex and others have brought out the example of the WISE Group paper that is referred to as Cavelieri et al as opposed to the WISE paper as Luigi initially intended. Fair enough. However, the difference between the WW3 manual and these other seminal papers is that the former is expected to be a regular release (once every 2 years, earlier if we have many contributions)
I am not trying to deny the importance of ownership and being cited. These things are important to me as well. And I am well aware of how citations can make careers, specially for younger scientists. I am not sure we need to do that for a regularly released manual.
Again my aim to move towards a development group framework is to make all feel as owners of this code and take pride in the contributions. However, if the anonymity of group name based referencing has the opposite intent and people feel less inclined to be part of the development group then that defeats the purpose. I will be more than happy to comply with what ever the group decides.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Arun Chawla
Chief
Marine Modelling & Analysis Branch
Room 2109
National Center for Weather & Climate Prediction
5830 University Research Court
College Park, MD 20740
Ph: 301-683-3740
Fx: 301-683-3703
------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 7:09 AM, Li, JianGuo <jian-guo.li at metoffice.gov.uk> wrote:
All
I appreciate Jessica’s work to manage such a large development group and get the public release out in time but I could not agree with Jessica on that “it would be unrealistic to keep up the continually growing list of names in so many different places (first page, Section 1.4, bibtex entries in multiple places, etc etc.)”
Most of those people have spent years developing this model. It took them ages to code it and validate it before we get to the present state of the model. Comparing with their hard work, compiling a full list of them on one page of the manual is trivial, extremely trivial. I have extracted the full list from the manual in 5 minutes by just copy and paste plus some minor editing (see the attachment).
Putting the author list right is showing the basic respect to those people who have contributed to the model development. This is the only way to formally recognise people’s contributions in today’s scientific world. First author is a honour to the main contributor and I agree with Arun at that Hendrik is the undisputable first author of this model. Although this manual is not a formal publication, it is used as a reference to the model. So we should treat it as a formal scientific paper/book.
It is acceptable the others quote this manual as Tolman et al … but it is not appropriate for us to do that at the very original place. Two similar papers for the WAM and WISE groups have provided the full author list right after the group name. We could follow the examples if you prefer a development group name.
This is my opinion and I am exercising my democracy right.
Kind regards.
Jian-Guo
From: ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group-bounces at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov [mailto:ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group-bounces at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Jessica Meixner - NOAA Affiliate
Sent: 17 November 2016 03:12
To: ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov
Subject: [Ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group] WWIII Developer Meeting Minutes -- Wed Nov 16 (IMPORTANT info inside)
Hi Everyone,
IMPORTANT: LAST CALL FOR UPDATES TO SECTION 1.4 OF THE MANUAL BY FRIDAY. Please go through and confirm that your contributions are correct and accounted for. For quick reference see http://polar.ncep.noaa.gov/waves/wavewatch/manual.v5.16.pdf You can either put your updates directly into the doc_edits branch or email them to me.
OPTIONS for citing manual:
Option 1:
The WAVEWATCH III® Development Group (WW3DG), 2016: User manual and system documentation of WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. Tech. Note 329, NOAA/NWS/NCEP/MMAB, College Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
--- The reasons for this option is to emphasize that WAVEWATCH III is now a community code and solves this issue for future issues as well. A further example for support of this is Linux for example no longer is citing Linus.
Option 2:
Tolman, H.L. and The WAVEWATCH III® Development Group (WW3DG), 2016: User manual and system documentation of WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. Tech. Note 329, NOAA/NWS/NCEP/MMAB, College Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
-- This option would give a person for the first author, which helps some of the concerns when citing on certain websites/publishers which might force a "human" and keeps the Development Group to emphasize the community. An open question is if a fake human "WW3DG" could be entered in these places, making this potentially unnecessary.
Option 3:
Tolman, H.L., et al., 2016: User manual and system documentation of WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. Tech. Note 329, NOAA/NWS/NCEP/MMAB, College Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
- There are some that have a desire to have a full list of authors, which realistically would be shorted to Tolman et al by most if not all websites/publishers/people. Also it would be unrealistic to keep up the continually growing list of names in so many different places (first page, Section 1.4, bibtex entries in multiple places, etc etc.) So we would probably just say Tolman et al with the list authors still being maintained only in Section 1.4 and any individuals who wish to list the whole list other places.
The only consensus we had on the call was that if there is a person first, Tolman would be that author, and to take this discussion off-line. I would venture to say option 1 is fine with the majority and option 2 if a person for first author is a must, but I could be wrong and this is a democracy, so feel free to voice other opinions. A choice one way or another will be made by Friday.
Other manual updates will include a "Please refer as" on the front page with the agreed upon citation. We will also provide a text file with the bibtex reference of the manual as a cheat sheet so anyone who downloads the code will have an easy reference. We will also update Section 1.4's heading with "The WAVEWATCH III Development Group".
OTHER MEETING NOTES:
The items missed from version 5, which now seem to be the priorities for version 6:
· implicit integration
· namelist for input files
· breaking probabilities
· ESMF interface
There are many other milestones and plans for version 6, that are on the wiki page. Please add your milestones that are not included and details for the ones that are. Also, please add tickets for bugs that you have found, so we can all keep track of issues together. For example, if you have details on the memory footprint issues or NC4 issues you have encountered put them in a ticket.
Fabrice, at NCEP our only "forum" is the wiki we currently have. If you would like to create any other forums, feel free.
Something that got left out of the meeting is that the trunk will be updated to version 6.00 after the updated manual goes out. I will send out an email update when that happens.
REMINDERS:
1. Check section 1.4 for your contribution by Friday.
2. Voice your opinion on citation of manual by Friday.
3. Add/update milestones/tickets on the wiki page.
4. Monthly calls are every third Wednesday at 10:30am EDT (Next one being Wednesday, December 21st). Let me know if you have anything you would like to present at this or future group calls.
As always please let me know if you have any questions.
Best,
Jessica
--
Jessica Meixner
IMSG Support Scientist
NCEP/EMC Marine Modeling and Analysis Branch
NOAA Center for Weather and Climate Prediction
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