[Ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group] WWIII Developer Meeting Minutes -- Wed Nov 16 (IMPORTANT info inside)
Arun Chawla - NOAA Federal
arun.chawla at noaa.gov
Thu Nov 17 15:17:22 UTC 2016
I hope to hear everybody's opinion on this and then if we do not have
consensus we will set up a poll to decide. I am hoping that all participate
after the discussion.
I hope nobody holds back. We would like to hear all opinions. And do not
worry about ruffling feathers. We want this group to grow and hold for a
long time so all your opinions are important.
Marine Modelling & Analysis Branch
National Center for Weather & Climate Prediction
5830 University Research Court
College Park, MD 20740
On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Henrique Alves - NOAA Affiliate <
henrique.alves at noaa.gov> wrote:
> Arun and All,
> Despite being a community model, the WW3 code package is by copyright
> property of the US National Weather Service/NOAA (eg, see licensing terms,
> and headers in all parts of the code itself). Therefore, it would make more
> sense if the authorship of the manual is attributed to the US National
> Weather Service/NOAA. This would fall into the APA citation style knows as
> "corporate authorship" (http://libguides.tru.ca/c.php?g=194005&p=1418555).
> There are a few different ways to go about that. One is to simply state in
> the manual that reference should be made in the form:
> US National Weather Service, NOAA, 2016: User manual and system
> documentation of WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. Tech. Note 329,
> NOAA/NWS/NCEP/MMAB, College Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
> And a list of collaborators, as well as the project lead, would be
> provided within the manual. This would be in line with the idea of using "The
> WAVEWATCH III® Development Group (WW3DG)", except that the latter does not
> formally exist, and would have to be formalized somehow within NOAA. If
> this is the case, the citation would be:
> The WAVEWATCH III® Development Group (WW3DG), 2016: User manual and
> system documentation of WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. NCEP/MMAB Tech.
> Note 329, US National Weather Service, NOAA, College Park, MD, USA, 326
> pp. + Appendices.
> A form adopted by several organizations for this type of report/manual,
> including ECMWF, UNESCO etc, would be consistent with the above, but in the
> line with what Alex suggested, whereby the group lead (eg, the person who
> would be held accountable/responsible for the development effort) appears
> as the corresponding author, and a list of collaborators is provided within
> the report (as done now), thus:
> Chawla, A., US National Weather Service, NOAA, 2016: User manual and
> system documentation of WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. NCEP/MMAB Tech. Note
> 329, College Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
> The corresponding author would change reflecting the person at NOAA who
> could be held responsible/accountable for the development work referring to
> that report.
> Finally, another option for authorship that we discussed in a WW3 meeting
> a couple of years ago, was to establish a steering committee representative
> of the main groups involved in the development effort. This steering
> committee would somehow be formalized within NOAA, composed of a smaller
> number of leads. Authorship in this case would be attributed to the
> steering committee (such as what was done in a couple of NOPP papers
> recently), and additional collaborators would be acknowledge inside the
> report (as seen now). This would lead to:
> Chawla, A., Aname, A., Bname, B., Cname, C., 2016: User manual and system
> documentation of WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. NCEP/MMAB Tech. Note 329, US
> National Weather Service, NOAA, College Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. +
> with as many co-authors as steering group members. Changes in steering
> group members, as also the case for the WW3 project lead, would be
> documented at NOAA and reflected in the authorship of subsequent
> *Dr Jose-Henrique Alves
> SRG Technical Lead at EMC/NCEP/NOAA
> NOAA Center for Weather and Climate Prediction
> 5830 University Research Court
> College Park, Maryland 20740, USA
> Phone: (301) 683-3762*
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 9:12 AM, Arun Chawla - NOAA Federal <
> arun.chawla at noaa.gov> wrote:
>> Thanks Jianguo
>> You bring up important points. Jessica was speaking for me so let me
>> elaborate my preference for the Group name further
>> a) The first name, and hence ownership issue becomes central. This to me
>> is an anathema to community model development. If there has to be a first
>> author right now Hendrik is the obvious choice. But what happens in a few
>> years ? There will come a time (and I am hoping for it) when code
>> development is diversified enough that no single group / person could take
>> the mantle of major developer. In fact that is already the case with v 5.16
>> b) While the list of authors at near 40 is still manageable, the
>> contributor list is only expected to grow and I hope exponentially. At what
>> time do we say this is too many names to put on a citation ?
>> c) Alex and others have brought out the example of the WISE Group paper
>> that is referred to as Cavelieri et al as opposed to the WISE paper as
>> Luigi initially intended. Fair enough. However, the difference between the
>> WW3 manual and these other seminal papers is that the former is expected to
>> be a regular release (once every 2 years, earlier if we have many
>> I am not trying to deny the importance of ownership and being cited.
>> These things are important to me as well. And I am well aware of how
>> citations can make careers, specially for younger scientists. I am not sure
>> we need to do that for a regularly released manual.
>> Again my aim to move towards a development group framework is to make all
>> feel as owners of this code and take pride in the contributions. However,
>> if the anonymity of group name based referencing has the opposite intent
>> and people feel less inclined to be part of the development group then that
>> defeats the purpose. I will be more than happy to comply with what ever the
>> group decides.
>> Arun Chawla
>> Marine Modelling & Analysis Branch
>> Room 2109
>> National Center for Weather & Climate Prediction
>> 5830 University Research Court
>> College Park, MD 20740
>> Ph: 301-683-3740
>> Fx: 301-683-3703
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 7:09 AM, Li, JianGuo <
>> jian-guo.li at metoffice.gov.uk> wrote:
>>> I appreciate Jessica’s work to manage such a large development group and
>>> get the public release out in time but I could not agree with Jessica on
>>> that “it would be unrealistic to keep up the continually growing list
>>> of names in so many different places (first page, Section 1.4, bibtex
>>> entries in multiple places, etc etc.)”
>>> Most of those people have spent years developing this model. It took
>>> them ages to code it and validate it before we get to the present state of
>>> the model. Comparing with their hard work, compiling a full list of them
>>> on one page of the manual is trivial, extremely trivial. I have extracted
>>> the full list from the manual in 5 minutes by just copy and paste plus some
>>> minor editing (see the attachment).
>>> Putting the author list right is showing the basic respect to those
>>> people who have contributed to the model development. This is the only way
>>> to formally recognise people’s contributions in today’s scientific world.
>>> First author is a honour to the main contributor and I agree with Arun at
>>> that Hendrik is the undisputable first author of this model. Although this
>>> manual is not a formal publication, it is used as a reference to the
>>> model. So we should treat it as a formal scientific paper/book.
>>> It is acceptable the others quote this manual as Tolman et al … but it
>>> is not appropriate for us to do that at the very original place. Two
>>> similar papers for the WAM and WISE groups have provided the full author
>>> list right after the group name. We could follow the examples if you
>>> prefer a development group name.
>>> This is my opinion and I am exercising my democracy right.
>>> Kind regards.
>>> *From:* ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group-bounces at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov
>>> [mailto:ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group-bounces at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov]
>>> *On Behalf Of *Jessica Meixner - NOAA Affiliate
>>> *Sent:* 17 November 2016 03:12
>>> *To:* ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov
>>> *Subject:* [Ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group] WWIII Developer Meeting
>>> Minutes -- Wed Nov 16 (IMPORTANT info inside)
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>> *IMPORTANT: LAST CALL FOR UPDATES TO SECTION 1.4 OF THE MANUAL BY FRIDAY*.
>>> Please go through and confirm that your contributions are correct and
>>> accounted for. For quick reference see http://polar.ncep.noaa.gov
>>> /waves/wavewatch/manual.v5.16.pdf You can either put your updates
>>> directly into the doc_edits branch or email them to me.
>>> *OPTIONS for citing manual*:
>>> *Option 1*:
>>> The WAVEWATCH III® Development Group (WW3DG), 2016: User manual and
>>> system documentation of WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. Tech. Note 329,
>>> NOAA/NWS/NCEP/MMAB, College Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
>>> --- The reasons for this option is to emphasize that WAVEWATCH III is
>>> now a community code and solves this issue for future issues as well. A
>>> further example for support of this is Linux for example no longer is
>>> citing Linus.
>>> *Option 2*:
>>> Tolman, H.L. and The WAVEWATCH III® Development Group (WW3DG), 2016:
>>> User manual and system documentation of WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. Tech.
>>> Note 329, NOAA/NWS/NCEP/MMAB, College Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
>>> -- This option would give a person for the first author, which helps
>>> some of the concerns when citing on certain websites/publishers which might
>>> force a "human" and keeps the Development Group to emphasize the
>>> community. An open question is if a fake human "WW3DG" could be
>>> entered in these places, making this potentially unnecessary.
>>> *Option 3*:
>>> Tolman, H.L., et al., 2016: User manual and system documentation of
>>> WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. Tech. Note 329, NOAA/NWS/NCEP/MMAB, College
>>> Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
>>> - There are some that have a desire to have a full list of authors,
>>> which realistically would be shorted to Tolman et al by most if not all
>>> websites/publishers/people. Also it would be unrealistic to keep up the
>>> continually growing list of names in so many different places (first page,
>>> Section 1.4, bibtex entries in multiple places, etc etc.) So we would
>>> probably just say Tolman et al with the list authors still being maintained
>>> only in Section 1.4 and any individuals who wish to list the whole list
>>> other places.
>>> The only consensus we had on the call was that if there is a person
>>> first, Tolman would be that author, and to take this discussion off-line. I
>>> would venture to say option 1 is fine with the majority and option 2 if a
>>> person for first author is a must, but I could be wrong and this is a
>>> democracy, so feel free to voice other opinions. A choice one way or
>>> another will be made by Friday.
>>> Other manual updates will include a "Please refer as" on the front page
>>> with the agreed upon citation. We will also provide a text file with the
>>> bibtex reference of the manual as a cheat sheet so anyone who downloads the
>>> code will have an easy reference. We will also update Section 1.4's
>>> heading with "The WAVEWATCH III Development Group".
>>> *OTHER MEETING NOTES: *
>>> The items missed from version 5, which now seem to be the priorities for
>>> version 6:
>>> · implicit integration
>>> · namelist for input files
>>> · breaking probabilities
>>> · ESMF interface
>>> There are many other milestones and plans for version 6, that are on the
>>> wiki page. Please add your milestones that are not included and details
>>> for the ones that are. Also, please add tickets for bugs that you have
>>> found, so we can all keep track of issues together. For example, if you
>>> have details on the memory footprint issues or NC4 issues you have
>>> encountered put them in a ticket.
>>> Fabrice, at NCEP our only "forum" is the wiki we currently have. If you
>>> would like to create any other forums, feel free.
>>> Something that got left out of the meeting is that the trunk will be
>>> updated to version 6.00 after the updated manual goes out. I will send out
>>> an email update when that happens.
>>> 1. Check section 1.4 for your contribution by Friday.
>>> 2. Voice your opinion on citation of manual by Friday.
>>> 3. Add/update milestones/tickets on the wiki page.
>>> 4. Monthly calls are every third Wednesday at 10:30am EDT (Next
>>> one being Wednesday, December 21st). Let me know if you have anything you
>>> would like to present at this or future group calls.
>>> As always please let me know if you have any questions.
>>> Jessica Meixner
>>> IMSG Support Scientist
>>> NCEP/EMC Marine Modeling and Analysis Branch
>>> NOAA Center for Weather and Climate Prediction
>>> Ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group mailing list
>>> Ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov
>> Ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group mailing list
>> Ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov
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