[Ncep.list.nems.announce] Feedback requested on replacing the NEMS build system.

Tue Feb 7 15:47:39 UTC 2017

Let me send something that various people have suggested:

cd NEMS/src
./configure something.appBuilder
source conf/modules.nems.sh
make

The configure script and makefile would be updated to know how to build the
components based on an appBuilder file.  The file would look slightly
different than it does now, but would specify the same information.

If a GUI is built, it would be a wrapper around those three commands.  The
internal logic in NEMSAppBuilder is just a wrapper around a far more
complex build process and a list of appBuilder files.  It should be
feasible to modify the script to use the new build system.  The only
complicated part is figuring out how to specify arbitrary sets of
components without an appBuilder file.  That feature of NEMSAppBuilder is
not fully maintained right now, since it is rarely used, but would be very
useful in the future.

However, if we are to maintain a text-based GUI, it should be based on a
widget set that is always present, rather than having Gerhard install it on
each machine.  The python curses module is one option since it is part of
every Linux distribution and even OS/X.

Sincerely,
Sam Trahan

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 10:41 AM, Patrick Tripp <patrick.tripp at noaa.gov>
wrote:

> Sam,
>
> I don't really need a GUI build system although I do use the
> NEMSAppbuilder and never had any major problems with it. I prefer using the
> non-interactive capability now.
> A Cupid/Eclipse based GUI assumes these tools are installed on the systems
> and the needed network connections are available (e.g. NX, X11, etc.). This
> is something that has been problematic in the past. It also requires many
> of us to learn a new tool/build system if this is the only option. Do we
> really need all of the bells and whistles of Eclipse/Cupid, just to build?
> I think we should keep it as simple as possible. Whatever is used, it has
> to work with the coupled systems, multiple components. This was the reason
> for the NEMSAppbuilder in the first place.
>
> - Patrick
>
>
> On 2/7/17 9:25 AM, Samuel Trahan - NOAA Affiliate wrote:
>
> Anning,
>
> The "configure and gmake" no longer works after the atmos layer is
> removed.  Even while we had the atmos layer, "configure and gmake" only
> compiled with an atmosphere.  Each component has its own build system, and
> some of them are complicated to run.
>
> One option is to make the "configure and gmake" more capable so that it
> CAN build the entire coupled system.  As for the GUI, it would be easy to
> make one once we have a new way of building the NEMS.  We could even have
> the "NEMSAppBuilder" look exactly like it did before (but with changes to
> to the appBuilder files).
>
> However, I don't think a text-based GUI is the right way to implement
> that.  This is a project, Cupid, to make a graphical IDE for all of NEMS.
> It does more than just building the system.  It has is code analysis and
> code generation tools, as well as interactive profile analysis tools.
>
> I think it would be better to use Cupid to provide the graphical
> front-end.   The NEMS repository would provide the back-end as a simple,
> easy to maintain, non-interactive build system of a more traditional
> nature.  Users that want extra flexibility can use Cupid's more powerful
> user interface.  The Eclipse-based Cupid system will be far more powerful
> than anything we can hack together in a text-based world.
>
> Sincerely,
> Sam Trahan
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Anning Cheng - NOAA Affiliate <
> anning.cheng at noaa.gov> wrote:
>
>> I still like the old way, configure and gmake in NEMS/src. It is good to
>> have NEMSAppBuilder, but why not keep both? Is it possible?
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 9:07 AM, Samuel Trahan - NOAA Affiliate <
>> samuel.trahan at noaa.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> Moorthi,
>>>
>>> That is the most common complaint.  I tried to cover that in items #1
>>> and #2 of my "feedback thus far" list in the previous email.  There are
>>> really two aspects to the problem:
>>>
>>> 1. It is difficult to navigate the 1900 line NEMSAppBuilder to figure
>>> out how to change the build commands.
>>>
>>> 2. Some users want to be able to manually build the NEMS without running
>>> an overarching script.
>>>
>>> Ultimately, if there was a simpler "NEMSAppBuilder" (problem #1) it
>>> would be easy to pick out the few commands you need to run manually
>>> (problem #2).
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Sam Trahan
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 9:04 AM, Shrinivas Moorthi <
>>> shrinivas.moorthi at noaa.gov> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I can't compile standalone GSM on wcoss.  How do I do it without
>>>> blackbox (appbuilder)?
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Moorthi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 02/07/2017 08:46 AM, Samuel Trahan - NOAA Affiliate wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> The NEMS build system, NEMSAppBuilder, is causing a lot of problems,
>>>> especially for the atmospheric model developers.  We plan on replacing the
>>>> build system.  What do you want out of the new build system?  What do you
>>>> dislike about the old one?
>>>>
>>>> Some questions to ponder:
>>>>
>>>> - How should the build system work internally?  Shell script?  Make?
>>>> Cmake?
>>>>
>>>> - How should you run the build system?  Shell script?  Run "make?"  Run
>>>> a GUI?
>>>>
>>>> - When do we replace the build system?  Do we do it now, and risk
>>>> breaking coupled systems?  Do we wait until we can test it with the coupled
>>>> applications?
>>>>
>>>> Feedback thus far:
>>>>
>>>> 1. It is difficult to navigate the 1900 line NEMSAppBuilder to figure
>>>> out how to change the build commands.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Some users want to be able to manually build the NEMS without
>>>> running an overarching script.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Some users want a simple graphical interface to select components
>>>> and build the NEMS.  (Yes, there are users that want this.)
>>>>
>>>> 4. Sometimes, components compile with options that are incompatible
>>>> with the linking options.  This is because each component has its own
>>>> configuration system.  This causes problems, as we saw with FV3.
>>>>
>>>> 5. The logic for building a component is in the NEMS framework level.
>>>> Any time a component's build system changes, the NEMS framework has to be
>>>> updated, breaking applications that use older versions of the component.
>>>> This forces applications to use non-trunk versions of the NEMS.
>>>>
>>>> 6.  The NEMS/src/configure script contains application-specific logic.
>>>> This also forces applications to use non-trunk versions of the NEMS.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Sam Trahan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Ncep.list.nems.announce mailing listNcep.list.nems.announce at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.govhttps://www.lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/ncep.list.nems.announce
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dr. Shrinivas Moorthi
>>>> Research Meteorologist
>>>> Global Climate and Weather Modeling Branch
>>>> Environmental Modeling Center / National Centers for Environmental Prediction
>>>> 5830 University Research Court - (W/NP23), College Park MD 20740 USA
>>>> Tel:(301)683-3718 <%28301%29%20683-3718>
>>>>
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