[Ncep.list.nems.announce] Feedback requested on replacing the NEMS build system.
Patrick Tripp
patrick.tripp at noaa.gov
Tue Feb 7 15:41:41 UTC 2017
Sam,
I don't really need a GUI build system although I do use the
NEMSAppbuilder and never had any major problems with it. I prefer using
the non-interactive capability now.
A Cupid/Eclipse based GUI assumes these tools are installed on the
systems and the needed network connections are available (e.g. NX, X11,
etc.). This is something that has been problematic in the past. It also
requires many of us to learn a new tool/build system if this is the only
option. Do we really need all of the bells and whistles of
Eclipse/Cupid, just to build? I think we should keep it as simple as
possible. Whatever is used, it has to work with the coupled systems,
multiple components. This was the reason for the NEMSAppbuilder in the
first place.
- Patrick
On 2/7/17 9:25 AM, Samuel Trahan - NOAA Affiliate wrote:
> Anning,
>
> The "configure and gmake" no longer works after the atmos layer is
> removed. Even while we had the atmos layer, "configure and gmake"
> only compiled with an atmosphere. Each component has its own build
> system, and some of them are complicated to run.
>
> One option is to make the "configure and gmake" more capable so that
> it CAN build the entire coupled system. As for the GUI, it would be
> easy to make one once we have a new way of building the NEMS. We
> could even have the "NEMSAppBuilder" look exactly like it did before
> (but with changes to to the appBuilder files).
>
> However, I don't think a text-based GUI is the right way to implement
> that. This is a project, Cupid, to make a graphical IDE for all of
> NEMS. It does more than just building the system. It has is code
> analysis and code generation tools, as well as interactive profile
> analysis tools.
>
> I think it would be better to use Cupid to provide the graphical
> front-end. The NEMS repository would provide the back-end as a
> simple, easy to maintain, non-interactive build system of a more
> traditional nature. Users that want extra flexibility can use Cupid's
> more powerful user interface. The Eclipse-based Cupid system will be
> far more powerful than anything we can hack together in a text-based
> world.
>
> Sincerely,
> Sam Trahan
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Anning Cheng - NOAA Affiliate
> <anning.cheng at noaa.gov <mailto:anning.cheng at noaa.gov>> wrote:
>
> I still like the old way, configure and gmake in NEMS/src. It is
> good to have NEMSAppBuilder, but why not keep both? Is it possible?
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 9:07 AM, Samuel Trahan - NOAA Affiliate
> <samuel.trahan at noaa.gov <mailto:samuel.trahan at noaa.gov>> wrote:
>
> Moorthi,
>
> That is the most common complaint. I tried to cover that in
> items #1 and #2 of my "feedback thus far" list in the previous
> email. There are really two aspects to the problem:
>
> 1. It is difficult to navigate the 1900 line NEMSAppBuilder to
> figure out how to change the build commands.
>
> 2. Some users want to be able to manually build the NEMS
> without running an overarching script.
>
> Ultimately, if there was a simpler "NEMSAppBuilder" (problem
> #1) it would be easy to pick out the few commands you need to
> run manually (problem #2).
>
> Sincerely,
> Sam Trahan
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 9:04 AM, Shrinivas Moorthi
> <shrinivas.moorthi at noaa.gov
> <mailto:shrinivas.moorthi at noaa.gov>> wrote:
>
> I can't compile standalone GSM on wcoss. How do I do it
> without blackbox (appbuilder)?
> Thanks
> Moorthi
>
>
> On 02/07/2017 08:46 AM, Samuel Trahan - NOAA Affiliate wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The NEMS build system, NEMSAppBuilder, is causing a lot
>> of problems, especially for the atmospheric model
>> developers. We plan on replacing the build system. What
>> do you want out of the new build system? What do you
>> dislike about the old one?
>>
>> Some questions to ponder:
>>
>> - How should the build system work internally? Shell
>> script? Make? Cmake?
>>
>> - How should you run the build system? Shell script? Run
>> "make?" Run a GUI?
>>
>> - When do we replace the build system? Do we do it now,
>> and risk breaking coupled systems? Do we wait until we
>> can test it with the coupled applications?
>>
>> Feedback thus far:
>>
>> 1. It is difficult to navigate the 1900 line
>> NEMSAppBuilder to figure out how to change the build
>> commands.
>>
>> 2. Some users want to be able to manually build the NEMS
>> without running an overarching script.
>>
>> 3. Some users want a simple graphical interface to select
>> components and build the NEMS. (Yes, there are users that
>> want this.)
>>
>> 4. Sometimes, components compile with options that are
>> incompatible with the linking options. This is because
>> each component has its own configuration system. This
>> causes problems, as we saw with FV3.
>>
>> 5. The logic for building a component is in the NEMS
>> framework level. Any time a component's build system
>> changes, the NEMS framework has to be updated, breaking
>> applications that use older versions of the component.
>> This forces applications to use non-trunk versions of the
>> NEMS.
>>
>> 6. The NEMS/src/configure script contains
>> application-specific logic. This also forces
>> applications to use non-trunk versions of the NEMS.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Sam Trahan
>>
>>
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>
> --
> Dr. Shrinivas Moorthi
> Research Meteorologist
> Global Climate and Weather Modeling Branch
> Environmental Modeling Center / National Centers for Environmental Prediction
> 5830 University Research Court - (W/NP23), College Park MD 20740 USA
> Tel:(301)683-3718 <tel:%28301%29%20683-3718>
>
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