[Ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group] WWIII Developer Meeting Minutes -- Wed Nov 16 (IMPORTANT info inside)

Thu Nov 17 14:12:08 UTC 2016

Thanks Jianguo

You bring up important points. Jessica was speaking for me so let me
elaborate my preference for the Group name further

a) The first name, and hence ownership issue becomes central. This to me is
an anathema to community model development. If there has to be a first
author right now Hendrik is the obvious choice. But what happens in a few
years ? There will come a time (and I am hoping for it) when code
development is diversified enough that no single group / person could take
the mantle of major developer. In fact that is already the case with v 5.16

b) While the list of authors at near 40 is still manageable, the
contributor list is only expected to grow and I hope exponentially. At what
time do we say this is too many names to put on a citation ?

c) Alex and others have brought out the example of the WISE Group paper
that is referred to as Cavelieri et al as opposed to the WISE paper as
Luigi initially intended. Fair enough. However, the difference between the
WW3 manual and these other seminal papers is that the former is expected to
be a regular release (once every 2 years, earlier if we have many
contributions)

I am not trying to deny the importance of ownership and being cited. These
things are important to me as well. And I am well aware of how citations
can make careers, specially for younger scientists. I am not sure we need
to do that for a regularly released manual.

Again my aim to move towards a development group framework is to make all
feel as owners of this code and take pride in the contributions. However,
if the anonymity of group name based referencing has the opposite intent
and people feel less inclined to be part of the development group then that
defeats the purpose. I will be more than happy to comply with what ever the
group decides.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Arun Chawla
Chief
Marine Modelling & Analysis Branch
Room 2109
National Center for Weather & Climate Prediction
5830 University Research Court
College Park, MD 20740
Ph: 301-683-3740
Fx: 301-683-3703
------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 7:09 AM, Li, JianGuo <jian-guo.li at metoffice.gov.uk>
wrote:

> All
>
>
>
> I appreciate Jessica’s work to manage such a large development group and
> get the public release out in time but I could not agree with Jessica on
> that “it would be unrealistic to keep up the continually growing list of
> names in so many different places (first page, Section 1.4, bibtex entries
> in multiple places, etc etc.)”
>
>
>
> Most of those people have spent years developing this model.  It took them
> ages to code it and validate it before we get to the present state of the
> model.  Comparing with their hard work, compiling a full list of them on
> one page of the manual is trivial, extremely trivial.  I have extracted the
> full list from the manual in 5 minutes by just copy and paste plus some
> minor editing (see the attachment).
>
>
>
> Putting the author list right is showing the basic respect to those people
> who have contributed to the model development.  This is the only way to
> formally recognise people’s contributions in today’s scientific world.
> First author is a honour to the main contributor and I agree with Arun at
> that Hendrik is the undisputable first author of this model.  Although this
> manual is not a formal publication, it is used as a reference to the
> model.  So we should treat it as a formal scientific paper/book.
>
>
>
> It is acceptable the others quote this manual as Tolman et al … but it is
> not appropriate for us to do that at the very original place.  Two similar
> papers for the WAM and WISE groups have provided the full author list right
> after the group name.  We could follow the examples if you prefer a
> development group name.
>
>
>
> This is my opinion and I am exercising my democracy right.
>
>
>
> Kind regards.
>
> Jian-Guo
>
>
>
> *From:* ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group-bounces at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov
> [mailto:ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group-bounces at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov] *On
> Behalf Of *Jessica Meixner - NOAA Affiliate
> *Sent:* 17 November 2016 03:12
> *To:* ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov
> *Subject:* [Ncep.list.wwatch3.discussion-group] WWIII Developer Meeting
> Minutes -- Wed Nov 16 (IMPORTANT info inside)
>
>
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> *IMPORTANT: LAST CALL FOR UPDATES TO SECTION 1.4 OF THE MANUAL BY FRIDAY*.
> Please go through and confirm that your contributions are correct and
> accounted for.  For quick reference see http://polar.ncep.noaa.
> gov/waves/wavewatch/manual.v5.16.pdf  You can either put your updates
> directly into the doc_edits branch or email them to me.
>
> *OPTIONS for citing manual*:
>
> *Option 1*:
> The WAVEWATCH III® Development Group (WW3DG), 2016: User manual and system
> documentation of  WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. Tech. Note 329,
> NOAA/NWS/NCEP/MMAB, College Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
>
> --- The reasons for this option is to emphasize that WAVEWATCH III is now
> a community code and solves this issue for future issues as well.  A
> further example for support of this is Linux for example no longer is
> citing Linus.
>
>
>
> *Option 2*:
> Tolman, H.L. and The WAVEWATCH III® Development Group (WW3DG), 2016: User
> manual and system documentation of  WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. Tech. Note
> 329, NOAA/NWS/NCEP/MMAB, College Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
>
> --  This option would give a person for the first author, which helps some
> of the concerns when citing on certain websites/publishers which might
> force a "human" and keeps the Development Group to emphasize the
> community.  An open question is if a fake human "WW3DG" could be entered
> in these places, making this potentially unnecessary.
>
> *Option 3*:
> Tolman, H.L., et al., 2016: User manual and system documentation of
>  WAVEWATCH III® version 5.16. Tech. Note 329, NOAA/NWS/NCEP/MMAB, College
> Park, MD, USA, 326 pp. + Appendices.
>
> -  There are some that have a desire to have a full list of authors, which
> realistically would be shorted to Tolman et al by most if not all
> websites/publishers/people.  Also it would be unrealistic to keep up the
> continually growing list of names in so many different places (first page,
> Section 1.4, bibtex entries in multiple places, etc etc.)  So we would
> probably just say Tolman et al with the list authors still being maintained
> only in Section 1.4 and any individuals who wish to list the whole list
> other places.
>
> The only consensus we had on the call was that if there is a person first,
> Tolman would be that author, and to take this discussion off-line. I would
> venture to say option 1 is fine with the majority and option 2 if a person
> for first author is a must, but I could be wrong and this is a democracy,
> so feel free to voice other opinions.  A choice one way or another will be
> made by Friday.
>
>
>
> Other manual updates will include a "Please refer as" on the front page
> with the agreed upon citation. We will also provide a text file with the
> bibtex reference of the manual as a cheat sheet so anyone who downloads the
> code will have an easy reference.  We will also update Section 1.4's
> heading with  "The WAVEWATCH III Development Group".
>
>
>
> *OTHER MEETING NOTES: *
>
> The items missed from version 5, which now seem to be the priorities for
> version 6:
>
> ·  implicit integration
>
> ·  namelist for input files
>
> ·  breaking probabilities
>
> ·  ESMF interface
>
> There are many other milestones and plans for version 6, that are on the
> wiki page.  Please add your milestones that are not included and details
> for the ones that are.  Also, please add tickets for bugs that you have
> found, so we can all keep track of issues together.  For example, if you
> have details on the memory footprint issues or NC4 issues you have
> encountered put them in a ticket.
>
> Fabrice, at NCEP our only "forum" is the wiki we currently have.  If you
> would like to create any other forums, feel free.
>
> Something that got left out of the meeting is that the trunk will be
> updated to version 6.00 after the updated manual goes out. I will send out
> an email update when that happens.
>
>
>
> *REMINDERS:*
>
> 1.       Check section 1.4 for your contribution by Friday.
>
> 2.       Voice your opinion on citation of manual by Friday.
>
> 3.       Add/update milestones/tickets on the wiki page.
>
> 4.       Monthly calls are every third Wednesday at 10:30am EDT (Next one
> being Wednesday, December 21st).  Let me know if you have anything you
> would like to present at this or future group calls.
>
> As always please let me know if you have any questions.
>
> Best,
>
> Jessica
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jessica Meixner
>
> IMSG Support Scientist
>
> NCEP/EMC Marine Modeling and Analysis Branch
>
> NOAA Center for Weather and Climate Prediction
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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