<div dir="ltr"><div>Thank you so much for the insight, Jian! <br></div><div><br></div><div>Yes we're really looking forward to the Canada radar network upgrade ongoing! And hopefully the satellite check can be added back in at some point (though I realize GOES-E does not cover the entire MRMS domain well, and GOES-W unfortunately seems like it may operate with degraded performance when it becomes operational). Obviously a satellite check wouldn't fix every case of AP, but in this case it would've helped!</div><div><br></div><div>-Joe<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Kenneth Howard - NOAA Federal <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kenneth.howard@noaa.gov" target="_blank">kenneth.howard@noaa.gov</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">Hi Joseph,</span><br style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><div><div><div><br></div>Thanks very much for your detailed <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline">inputs. As you've identified, the clutter were due to anomalous propagation under morning inversions. The clutter are difficult to remove at far ranges due to their characteristics being similar to shallow storms. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline">We did try to use satellite data to mitigate such APs a while back, although the satellite data had lower frequencies (15min) than radar (4-5min) and caused temporal discontinuities in the QCed fields. And non-precip clouds in satellite data often masked the clutter making the benefits limited. Therefore the satellite check was not implemented in the operational MRMS.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline">Now with the higher frequency GOES-16, we</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline"> are</div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline">reconsidering the satellite check for the next build (v12.5). Meanwhile, the Environment Canada is upgrading their network to S-band dual-pol</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline"> in the next a few years</div>, which <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline">will make the clutter</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline"> removal much more efficient.</div> <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div><br></div><div>-<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline">Jian</div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 6:57 AM, Joseph Moore - NOAA Federal <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:joseph.moore@noaa.gov" target="_blank">joseph.moore@noaa.gov</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5"><div dir="ltr"><div>Good morning,</div><div><br></div><div>I just wanted to share some feedback on MRMS and Canadian Radar data. We've noticed that some mornings we see the Canadian radar reflectivity data not being QC'd out of MRMS, causing errors in QPE. This was an issue a week ago when we had a period of heavy rainfall, but then the QPE got exaggerated (values increased due to bad reflectivity) along the international border in northern Minnesota. I have attached (via Google Drive) a few GIFs of MRMS products this morning demonstrating the bad reflectivity values being ingested and accumulating on the QPE product in northern Minnesota. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Problem: Some high reflectivity values from morning inversions are being ingested into MRMS precip products from our Canadian radars. (Specifically Dryden radar and occasionally the Superior West (Thunder Bay) radar site.)</div><div><br></div><div>Expected behavior: Since there is no precip in the area (no clouds), I would expect these values to be QC'd out like MRMS usually does.</div><div><br></div><div>When the problem occurs: Usually in the morning hours when a strong inversion is present.</div><div><br></div><div>Urgency: This is not an urgent issue, but it would be good to see addressed eventually since MRMS precip impacts so many things downstream, like FLASH. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Linked GIFs show (from top left, clockwise): GOES-16 Clean IR Ch 11, GOES-16 Red Vis Ch 2, 0.5 degree NEXRAD Reflectivity composite, and the MRMS product in question. (In one GIF I included the MRMS 1-hour QPE to show that MRMS is accumulating these reflectivity values as precip.)</div><div><br></div><div>Let me know if you have any other questions. I can continue to send examples if it would help diagnose the issue. <br></div><div><br></div><div>**NOTE** This has NOTHING to do with the MRMS outage this morning even though some of the frames in this GIF are from when the issues were happening. <br></div><div><br></div><div>-Joe Moore <br></div><div><div class="gmail_chip gmail_drive_chip" style="width:396px;height:18px;max-height:18px;background-color:rgb(245,245,245);padding:5px;font-family:arial;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid rgb(221,221,221);line-height:1"><a href="https://drive.google.com/a/noaa.gov/file/d/17tHY7INKLiHiFBgI6I9xuB0ZnYElTyRA/view?usp=drive_web" style="display:inline-block;max-width:366px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;white-space:nowrap;text-decoration:none;padding:1px 0;border:none" target="_blank"><img style="vertical-align:bottom;border:none" src="https://ssl.gstatic.com/docs/doclist/images/icon_10_generic_list.png"> <span dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);text-decoration:none;vertical-align:bottom">2018-07-18-12z-mrms-Composite<wbr>-1KM.gif</span></a><img style="opacity:0.55;float:right;display:none"></div><div class="gmail_chip gmail_drive_chip" style="width:396px;height:18px;max-height:18px;background-color:rgb(245,245,245);padding:5px;font-family:arial;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid rgb(221,221,221);line-height:1"><a href="https://drive.google.com/a/noaa.gov/file/d/1NhS2-2jMclsi6bEB38Z-J0Ubvak35wx3/view?usp=drive_web" style="display:inline-block;max-width:366px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;white-space:nowrap;text-decoration:none;padding:1px 0;border:none" target="_blank"><img style="vertical-align:bottom;border:none" src="https://ssl.gstatic.com/docs/doclist/images/icon_10_generic_list.png"> <span dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);text-decoration:none;vertical-align:bottom">2018-07-18-12z-mrms-RALA.gif</span></a><img style="opacity:0.55;float:right;display:none"></div><div class="gmail_chip gmail_drive_chip" style="width:396px;height:18px;max-height:18px;background-color:rgb(245,245,245);padding:5px;font-family:arial;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid rgb(221,221,221);line-height:1"><a href="https://drive.google.com/a/noaa.gov/file/d/15f0nxGsdgU_uFUzy9MEywXrNdOU0e5xw/view?usp=drive_web" style="display:inline-block;max-width:366px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;white-space:nowrap;text-decoration:none;padding:1px 0;border:none" target="_blank"><img style="vertical-align:bottom;border:none" src="https://ssl.gstatic.com/docs/doclist/images/icon_10_generic_list.png"> <span dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);text-decoration:none;vertical-align:bottom">2018-07-18-12z-mrms-SHSR+1hr-<wbr>QPE.gif</span></a><img style="opacity:0.55;float:right;display:none"></div><div class="gmail_chip gmail_drive_chip" style="width:396px;height:18px;max-height:18px;background-color:rgb(245,245,245);padding:5px;font-family:arial;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid rgb(221,221,221);line-height:1"><a href="https://drive.google.com/a/noaa.gov/file/d/1T7TIPx5Hh7Fk8L3Vfj-D8csl95NkJtCy/view?usp=drive_web" style="display:inline-block;max-width:366px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;white-space:nowrap;text-decoration:none;padding:1px 0;border:none" target="_blank"><img style="vertical-align:bottom;border:none" src="https://ssl.gstatic.com/docs/doclist/images/icon_10_generic_list.png"> <span dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);text-decoration:none;vertical-align:bottom">2018-07-18-12z-mrms-SHSR.gif</span></a><img style="opacity:0.55;float:right;display:none"></div><span class="m_3772219638266993673HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br></font></span></div><span class="m_3772219638266993673HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br>-- <br><div class="m_3772219638266993673m_-157508668162105411gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><b>Joseph J. Moore</b><br></div>Meteorologist | WFO Duluth Social Media & IDSS Program Leader | Open Source GIS Evangelist <br></div><div>NOAA/National Weather Service Duluth, MN<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></font></span></div>
<br></div></div><span class="">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ncep.list.idp.mrms.users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ncep.list.idp.mrms.users@lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov" target="_blank">Ncep.list.idp.mrms.users@lstsr<wbr>v.ncep.noaa.gov</a><br>
<a href="https://www.lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/ncep.list.idp.mrms.users" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.lstsrv.ncep.noaa.g<wbr>ov/mailman/listinfo/ncep.list.<wbr>idp.mrms.users</a><br>
<br></span></blockquote></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="m_3772219638266993673gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><font size="1" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#444444"><b>Kenneth W. Howard</b></font><br style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><font style="color:rgb(68,68,68)" size="1"><i>Program Manager and Research Meteorologist</i>, </font></div><div><font style="color:rgb(68,68,68)" size="1">Stormscale Hydro Meteorology Group (SHMET), WRDD </font></div><div><font style="color:rgb(68,68,68)" size="1">National Severe Storms Laboratory</font><br style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><font style="color:rgb(68,68,68)" size="1"><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=120+David+L+Boren+Blvd&entry=gmail&source=g">120 David L Boren Blvd</a>, Norman, OK 73072<br>Phone: <a href="tel:(405)%20325-6485" value="+14053256485" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">(405) 535 </a>9863 Email: kenneth.howard<a href="mailto:jian.zhang@noaa.gov" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank"><span>@noaa.gov</span></a></font></div></div></div>
</font></span></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><b>Joseph J. Moore</b><br></div>Meteorologist | WFO Duluth Social Media & IDSS Program Leader | Open Source GIS Evangelist <br></div><div>NOAA/National Weather Service Duluth, MN<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>