From pescribaa at aemet.es  Fri Apr 20 08:26:31 2018
From: pescribaa at aemet.es (Pau)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 10:26:31 +0200
Subject: [Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers] t2m, rh2m, u10m,
	... at t=0
Message-ID: <26648261-1bc6-8664-4a0b-fc1c36061249@aemet.es>

Hello all,

I am a new user of NMMB model. I work at the Spanish Met Agency with 
several NWP-LAM models. We are running daily NMMB at home and we see 
that, after UPP processing, we don't get some surface parameters like 
t2m, rh2m, u10m, v10m or visibility, at t=0, but we do for any lead time 
t>0. After dedicating some time to look to UPP and NMMB user's guides 
and namelists, I am quite sure this variables cannot be got in an easy 
manner for t=0. Could anybody confirm me this? In such a case, we have 
to do some further final work with vertical interpolations and so.

Thanks in advance!

Pau Escriba

Spanish Met Agency (AEMET)


From marco.biordi at gmail.com  Fri Apr 20 08:37:52 2018
From: marco.biordi at gmail.com (Marco Biordi)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 08:37:52 +0000
Subject: [Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers] t2m, rh2m, u10m,
 ... at t=0
In-Reply-To: <26648261-1bc6-8664-4a0b-fc1c36061249@aemet.es>
References: <26648261-1bc6-8664-4a0b-fc1c36061249@aemet.es>
Message-ID: <CADvASMVN0RvjsFsh=wTENzmfbq=hON7Tq86n8=t9aWf1+5mQkw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Pau,

you can get t=0 missing parameters when you enable the Digital Filter
Initialization.

Do that by setting configuration option "filter_method" to value 1 or 2 or
3 (usual one).

Regards

Marco Biordi

San Marino Republic Weather Forecast Center
meteo.sm


2018-04-20 8:26 GMT+00:00 Pau <pescribaa at aemet.es>:

> Hello all,
>
> I am a new user of NMMB model. I work at the Spanish Met Agency with
> several NWP-LAM models. We are running daily NMMB at home and we see
> that, after UPP processing, we don't get some surface parameters like
> t2m, rh2m, u10m, v10m or visibility, at t=0, but we do for any lead time
> t>0. After dedicating some time to look to UPP and NMMB user's guides
> and namelists, I am quite sure this variables cannot be got in an easy
> manner for t=0. Could anybody confirm me this? In such a case, we have
> to do some further final work with vertical interpolations and so.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Pau Escriba
>
> Spanish Met Agency (AEMET)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers mailing list
> Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov
> https://www.lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/ncep.
> list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers
>
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From pescribaa at aemet.es  Fri Apr 20 09:50:54 2018
From: pescribaa at aemet.es (Pau)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 11:50:54 +0200
Subject: [Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers] t2m, rh2m, u10m,
 ... at t=0
In-Reply-To: <CADvASMVN0RvjsFsh=wTENzmfbq=hON7Tq86n8=t9aWf1+5mQkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <26648261-1bc6-8664-4a0b-fc1c36061249@aemet.es>
	<CADvASMVN0RvjsFsh=wTENzmfbq=hON7Tq86n8=t9aWf1+5mQkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9af85098-4c14-a27c-3474-3bf221c885f4@aemet.es>

Hi Marco,

Thanks very much for the answer, we are going to test it right now.

We should see if DFI changes our verification scores but I would expect 
it doesn't, taking into account we are not doing analysis cycling with 
NMMB.

Just a small question, apart from filter_method=3, are using the regular 
values for filtering parameters:

nsecs_bcktdfi: 3600???????? # HALF backward filter window (s)??????? (TDFI)
nsecs_fwdtdfi: 3600???????? # HALF forward filter window (s)???????? (TDFI)

?

In our case we are running with around 2.5 km horizontal resolution and 
5.625 seconds of time step. Probably we should make some tunning of this 
parameters...

Many thanks.

Pau


El 20/04/18 a les 10:37, Marco Biordi ha escrit:
> Hello Pau,
>
> you can get t=0 missing parameters when you enable the Digital Filter 
> Initialization.
>
> Do that by setting configuration option "filter_method" to value 1 or 
> 2 or 3 (usual one).
>
> Regards
>
> Marco Biordi
>
> San Marino Republic Weather Forecast Center
> meteo.sm <http://meteo.sm>
>
>
> 2018-04-20 8:26 GMT+00:00 Pau <pescribaa at aemet.es 
> <mailto:pescribaa at aemet.es>>:
>
>     Hello all,
>
>     I am a new user of NMMB model. I work at the Spanish Met Agency with
>     several NWP-LAM models. We are running daily NMMB at home and we see
>     that, after UPP processing, we don't get some surface parameters like
>     t2m, rh2m, u10m, v10m or visibility, at t=0, but we do for any
>     lead time
>     t>0. After dedicating some time to look to UPP and NMMB user's guides
>     and namelists, I am quite sure this variables cannot be got in an
>     easy
>     manner for t=0. Could anybody confirm me this? In such a case, we
>     have
>     to do some further final work with vertical interpolations and so.
>
>     Thanks in advance!
>
>     Pau Escriba
>
>     Spanish Met Agency (AEMET)
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers mailing list
>     Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov
>     <mailto:Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov>
>     https://www.lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers
>     <https://www.lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers>
>
>

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From marco.biordi at gmail.com  Fri Apr 20 10:30:17 2018
From: marco.biordi at gmail.com (Marco Biordi)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 10:30:17 +0000
Subject: [Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers] t2m, rh2m, u10m,
 ... at t=0
In-Reply-To: <9af85098-4c14-a27c-3474-3bf221c885f4@aemet.es>
References: <26648261-1bc6-8664-4a0b-fc1c36061249@aemet.es>
	<CADvASMVN0RvjsFsh=wTENzmfbq=hON7Tq86n8=t9aWf1+5mQkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<9af85098-4c14-a27c-3474-3bf221c885f4@aemet.es>
Message-ID: <CADvASMUtQY3sa+7B19W=kTDmC14Vc9VGBjWGHk3gnsfmeZNQnA@mail.gmail.com>

We're using 3600.

Anyway keep this value to be an integer multiple of the time step,
elsewhere give error.

Marco

2018-04-20 9:50 GMT+00:00 Pau <pescribaa at aemet.es>:

> Hi Marco,
>
> Thanks very much for the answer, we are going to test it right now.
>
> We should see if DFI changes our verification scores but I would expect it
> doesn't, taking into account we are not doing analysis cycling with NMMB.
>
> Just a small question, apart from filter_method=3, are using the regular
> values for filtering parameters:
>
> nsecs_bcktdfi: 3600         # HALF backward filter window (s)        (TDFI)
> nsecs_fwdtdfi: 3600         # HALF forward filter window (s)         (TDFI)
>
> ?
>
> In our case we are running with around 2.5 km horizontal resolution and
> 5.625 seconds of time step. Probably we should make some tunning of this
> parameters...
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Pau
>
> El 20/04/18 a les 10:37, Marco Biordi ha escrit:
>
> Hello Pau,
>
> you can get t=0 missing parameters when you enable the Digital Filter
> Initialization.
>
> Do that by setting configuration option "filter_method" to value 1 or 2 or
> 3 (usual one).
>
> Regards
>
> Marco Biordi
>
> San Marino Republic Weather Forecast Center
> meteo.sm
>
>
> 2018-04-20 8:26 GMT+00:00 Pau <pescribaa at aemet.es>:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am a new user of NMMB model. I work at the Spanish Met Agency with
>> several NWP-LAM models. We are running daily NMMB at home and we see
>> that, after UPP processing, we don't get some surface parameters like
>> t2m, rh2m, u10m, v10m or visibility, at t=0, but we do for any lead time
>> t>0. After dedicating some time to look to UPP and NMMB user's guides
>> and namelists, I am quite sure this variables cannot be got in an easy
>> manner for t=0. Could anybody confirm me this? In such a case, we have
>> to do some further final work with vertical interpolations and so.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> Pau Escriba
>>
>> Spanish Met Agency (AEMET)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers mailing list
>> Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov
>> https://www.lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/ncep.list.
>> emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers
>>
>
>
>
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From jacob.carley at noaa.gov  Fri Apr 20 12:11:15 2018
From: jacob.carley at noaa.gov (Jacob Carley - NOAA Federal)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 08:11:15 -0400
Subject: [Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers] t2m, rh2m, u10m,
 ... at t=0
In-Reply-To: <CADvASMUtQY3sa+7B19W=kTDmC14Vc9VGBjWGHk3gnsfmeZNQnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <26648261-1bc6-8664-4a0b-fc1c36061249@aemet.es>
	<CADvASMVN0RvjsFsh=wTENzmfbq=hON7Tq86n8=t9aWf1+5mQkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<9af85098-4c14-a27c-3474-3bf221c885f4@aemet.es>
	<CADvASMUtQY3sa+7B19W=kTDmC14Vc9VGBjWGHk3gnsfmeZNQnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADWMng1=n8oFMXj_ad1-E3PTxEGW2xUbfW+tDxt99bCdBKx_tA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Pau,

If you run one of the DFI variants that involves a backward, adiabatic
integration at such a high resolution you can run into instability issues.
I suggest keeping the filter window length short and making the filter
timestep short as well.  For reference, here is what we use for the
operational 3km NAM CONUS Nest at NOAA/NCEP/EMC:

##########################################
##### Fundamental Timestep (seconds) #####
##########################################

dt_int: 6           # Integer seconds
dt_num: 1          # Numerator of fractional second
dt_den: 4          # Denominator of fractional second

filt_dt_int: 2             # Integer seconds
filt_dt_num: 0             # Numerator of fractional second
filt_dt_den: 4             # Denominator of fractional second


###################################
##### Digital Filtering options ###
###################################

filter_method: 3            # 0--->none ; 1--->DFL ; 2---> DDFI ; 3--->TDFI

nsecs_dfl: 1800             # HALF foward filter window (s)          (DFL)
nsecs_bckddfi: 1800         # HALF backward integration duration (s) (DDFI)
nsecs_fwdddfi: 3600         # HALF foward filter window (s)          (DDFI)
nsecs_bcktdfi: 600         # HALF backward filter window (s)        (TDFI)
nsecs_fwdtdfi: 600         # HALF forward filter window (s)         (TDFI)


Hope this helps!
Jacob


On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 6:30 AM, Marco Biordi <marco.biordi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> We're using 3600.
>
> Anyway keep this value to be an integer multiple of the time step,
> elsewhere give error.
>
> Marco
>
> 2018-04-20 9:50 GMT+00:00 Pau <pescribaa at aemet.es>:
>
>> Hi Marco,
>>
>> Thanks very much for the answer, we are going to test it right now.
>>
>> We should see if DFI changes our verification scores but I would expect
>> it doesn't, taking into account we are not doing analysis cycling with
>> NMMB.
>>
>> Just a small question, apart from filter_method=3, are using the regular
>> values for filtering parameters:
>>
>> nsecs_bcktdfi: 3600         # HALF backward filter window (s)
>> (TDFI)
>> nsecs_fwdtdfi: 3600         # HALF forward filter window (s)
>> (TDFI)
>>
>> ?
>>
>> In our case we are running with around 2.5 km horizontal resolution and
>> 5.625 seconds of time step. Probably we should make some tunning of this
>> parameters...
>>
>> Many thanks.
>>
>> Pau
>>
>> El 20/04/18 a les 10:37, Marco Biordi ha escrit:
>>
>> Hello Pau,
>>
>> you can get t=0 missing parameters when you enable the Digital Filter
>> Initialization.
>>
>> Do that by setting configuration option "filter_method" to value 1 or 2
>> or 3 (usual one).
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Marco Biordi
>>
>> San Marino Republic Weather Forecast Center
>> meteo.sm
>>
>>
>> 2018-04-20 8:26 GMT+00:00 Pau <pescribaa at aemet.es>:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am a new user of NMMB model. I work at the Spanish Met Agency with
>>> several NWP-LAM models. We are running daily NMMB at home and we see
>>> that, after UPP processing, we don't get some surface parameters like
>>> t2m, rh2m, u10m, v10m or visibility, at t=0, but we do for any lead time
>>> t>0. After dedicating some time to look to UPP and NMMB user's guides
>>> and namelists, I am quite sure this variables cannot be got in an easy
>>> manner for t=0. Could anybody confirm me this? In such a case, we have
>>> to do some further final work with vertical interpolations and so.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>> Pau Escriba
>>>
>>> Spanish Met Agency (AEMET)
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers mailing list
>>> Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov
>>> https://www.lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/ncep.list.
>>> emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers mailing list
> Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov
> https://www.lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/ncep.
> list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers
>
>
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From pescribaa at aemet.es  Fri Apr 20 12:31:19 2018
From: pescribaa at aemet.es (Pau)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:31:19 +0200
Subject: [Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers] t2m, rh2m, u10m,
 ... at t=0
In-Reply-To: <CADWMng1=n8oFMXj_ad1-E3PTxEGW2xUbfW+tDxt99bCdBKx_tA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <26648261-1bc6-8664-4a0b-fc1c36061249@aemet.es>
	<CADvASMVN0RvjsFsh=wTENzmfbq=hON7Tq86n8=t9aWf1+5mQkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<9af85098-4c14-a27c-3474-3bf221c885f4@aemet.es>
	<CADvASMUtQY3sa+7B19W=kTDmC14Vc9VGBjWGHk3gnsfmeZNQnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADWMng1=n8oFMXj_ad1-E3PTxEGW2xUbfW+tDxt99bCdBKx_tA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d5a8af37-17e4-a9a0-1ce5-c2852821ea2e@aemet.es>

Hi Jacob.

Many thanks for letting me know the reference values for the DFI filter 
parameters you use operationally with you NAM CONUS.

Definitely, we will do some verification, some parallel runs with 
different filter parameters. In our case, so far, we are not doing 
analysis, so interpolating from global model (10 or more km horizontal 
resolution) to NMMB 2.5 km resolution. It can be that the error 
introduced by the resolution change jumping needs another kind of filter 
parameters, no clear idea, I am not an expert in balancing stuff. In any 
case, we now have all the ingredients to tune our DFI and to have the 
surface parameters at t=0!

Many thank to all.

Pau


El 20/04/18 a les 14:11, Jacob Carley - NOAA Federal ha escrit:
> Hi Pau,
>
> If you run one of the DFI variants that involves a backward, adiabatic 
> integration at such a high resolution you can run into instability 
> issues.? I suggest keeping the filter window length short and making 
> the filter timestep short as well.? For reference, here is what we use 
> for the operational 3km NAM CONUS Nest at NOAA/NCEP/EMC:
>
>     ##########################################
>     ##### Fundamental Timestep (seconds) #####
>     ##########################################
>
>     dt_int: 6 ? ? ? ? ? # Integer seconds
>     dt_num: 1 ? ? ? ? ?# Numerator of fractional second
>     dt_den: 4 ? ? ? ? ?# Denominator of fractional second
>
>     filt_dt_int: 2 ? ? ? ? ? ? # Integer seconds
>     filt_dt_num: 0 ? ? ? ? ? ? # Numerator of fractional second
>     filt_dt_den: 4 ? ? ? ? ? ? # Denominator of fractional second
>
>
>     ###################################
>     ##### Digital Filtering options ###
>     ###################################
>
>     filter_method: 3 ? ? ? ? ? ?# 0--->none ; 1--->DFL ; 2---> DDFI ;
>     3--->TDFI
>
>     nsecs_dfl: 1800 ? ? ? ? ? ? # HALF foward filter window (s) ? ? ?
>     ? ?(DFL)
>     nsecs_bckddfi: 1800 ? ? ? ? # HALF backward integration duration
>     (s) (DDFI)
>     nsecs_fwdddfi: 3600 ? ? ? ? # HALF foward filter window (s) ? ? ?
>     ? ?(DDFI)
>     nsecs_bcktdfi: 600 ? ? ? ? # HALF backward filter window (s) ? ? ?
>     ?(TDFI)
>     nsecs_fwdtdfi: 600 ? ? ? ? # HALF forward filter window (s) ? ? ?
>     ? (TDFI)
>
>
> Hope this helps!
> Jacob
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 6:30 AM, Marco Biordi <marco.biordi at gmail.com 
> <mailto:marco.biordi at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     We're using 3600.
>
>     Anyway keep this value to be an integer multiple of the time step,
>     elsewhere give error.
>
>     Marco
>
>     2018-04-20 9:50 GMT+00:00 Pau <pescribaa at aemet.es
>     <mailto:pescribaa at aemet.es>>:
>
>         Hi Marco,
>
>         Thanks very much for the answer, we are going to test it right
>         now.
>
>         We should see if DFI changes our verification scores but I
>         would expect it doesn't, taking into account we are not doing
>         analysis cycling with NMMB.
>
>         Just a small question, apart from filter_method=3, are using
>         the regular values for filtering parameters:
>
>         nsecs_bcktdfi: 3600???????? # HALF backward filter window
>         (s)??????? (TDFI)
>         nsecs_fwdtdfi: 3600???????? # HALF forward filter window
>         (s)???????? (TDFI)
>
>         ?
>
>         In our case we are running with around 2.5 km horizontal
>         resolution and 5.625 seconds of time step. Probably we should
>         make some tunning of this parameters...
>
>         Many thanks.
>
>         Pau
>
>
>         El 20/04/18 a les 10:37, Marco Biordi ha escrit:
>>         Hello Pau,
>>
>>         you can get t=0 missing parameters when you enable the
>>         Digital Filter Initialization.
>>
>>         Do that by setting configuration option "filter_method" to
>>         value 1 or 2 or 3 (usual one).
>>
>>         Regards
>>
>>         Marco Biordi
>>
>>         San Marino Republic Weather Forecast Center
>>         meteo.sm <http://meteo.sm>
>>
>>
>>         2018-04-20 8:26 GMT+00:00 Pau <pescribaa at aemet.es
>>         <mailto:pescribaa at aemet.es>>:
>>
>>             Hello all,
>>
>>             I am a new user of NMMB model. I work at the Spanish Met
>>             Agency with
>>             several NWP-LAM models. We are running daily NMMB at home
>>             and we see
>>             that, after UPP processing, we don't get some surface
>>             parameters like
>>             t2m, rh2m, u10m, v10m or visibility, at t=0, but we do
>>             for any lead time
>>             t>0. After dedicating some time to look to UPP and NMMB
>>             user's guides
>>             and namelists, I am quite sure this variables cannot be
>>             got in an easy
>>             manner for t=0. Could anybody confirm me this? In such a
>>             case, we have
>>             to do some further final work with vertical
>>             interpolations and so.
>>
>>             Thanks in advance!
>>
>>             Pau Escriba
>>
>>             Spanish Met Agency (AEMET)
>>
>>             _______________________________________________
>>             Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers mailing list
>>             Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov
>>             <mailto:Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov>
>>             https://www.lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers
>>             <https://www.lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers mailing list
>     Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov
>     <mailto:Ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers at lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov>
>     https://www.lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers
>     <https://www.lstsrv.ncep.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/ncep.list.emc.nmmb-questions-and-answers>
>
>

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